Fed is best: Taking the pressure off ARFID families with Margo White

Laetitia: Welcome to The Neurodivergent Pulse, where we explore the often misunderstood world of neurodivergence with experts, parents, teachers, and therapists. Grounded in lived experience, each bite sized episode gives you something practical to try. I am your host, Laetitia Andrac, AI expert, neurodivergent mum, and founder of Understanding Zoe. This podcast is recorded on Dharawal country. I acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land. Hello Margo. Welcome to The Neurodivergent Pulse podcast.

Margo: Hello. Thank you so much for having me.

Laetitia: It is really, really special to have you on the show, especially as we've been talking a lot, and you've been knowing the work that we're doing for quite some time, but there are many people who are joining this podcast who may have never heard about you. So can you share a bit more about your journey, and what drew you to really go and educate parents, teachers, therapists around ARFID?

Margo: Sure. Well, I guess I've always had a difficult relationship with food. I had an eating disorder when I was a teenager, but it wasn't really until I was identified as ADHD a few years ago that everything really made sense to me and clicked into place. And when I went through that process, I truly began to heal my relationship with food and my body, which was very empowering and honestly quite a life changing experience. Going through the whole process of learning this about myself, it gave me a really positive and compassionate lens to see myself through, and deep, I guess, awareness and understanding around why my relationship with food and my body was difficult. And it helped me to reduce any shame that I experienced growing up around these difficulties as well. And then that moment of kind of clarity, it completely redirected my life and my work. And I founded Whole Body Nutrition, which is my business. And it's grown really into something in the last few years that I'm so incredibly proud of, and it just feels like it's getting bigger and bigger, which is very exciting.

Margo: But in terms of specialising in ARFID or feeding differences, that wasn't actually my intention in the beginning. I just knew that I really wanted to work with neurodivergent people who had also experienced a difficult or different relationship with food, just like I had. And I actually just started sharing my own lived experience on social media, and lots of people started connecting with it, and it was incredibly healing for me sharing that stuff. But then to hear from other people that it was healing for them, that was really incredible for me. And so I decided, I noticed that there was this huge gap, basically, in the market, where there was a lack of support for people with ARFID and feeding differences that were neurodivergent in some way. And so I went away and I learned as much as I could through courses, through people with lived experience, through really learning about my own experience in more detail as well. And the more that I shared, the more I just realised how much this work matters, and how needed it is as well. So yeah, now I have the privilege of supporting other neurodivergent people and families who have walked a similar path to me, and just helping them to find safety, confidence, and to nourish their bodies in ways that truly honour who they are is such a powerful and beautiful thing. And I just love what I do so much.

Laetitia: And you're so good at what you do.

Margo: Thank you.

Laetitia: This is a tiny testimonial, but you've seen so many parents and families, and I know that personally, with our own lived experience of ARFID, we have many people confusing ARFID for picky eating or picky eaters. So from your perspective, what does it mean, and can we educate a little bit on this podcast for anyone who's listening to this, who is new to this concept, about what it is and what it,

Margo: Sure. So, I just want to pick at, well, not pick at, what's the word? What is the word? Hang on, you can edit this out, can't you? I'm just trying to think of what the word is. I just want to talk a little bit about picky or fussy eating. I can't think of the word that's trying to come to my brain right now, but essentially, I don't like those terms, because I feel like they really invalidate a person's experience.

Laetitia: Yes.

Margo: And people that have sensory aversions to foods, they're simply trying to meet those sensory needs. So picky eating is actually often a negative label that we might assign to a person. It doesn't foster a healthy relationship with food, or oneself, or the body, though. And it's often actually not how a lot of individuals who might have a narrow range of food in their diet would actually see themselves. So that's just one thing.

Margo: But in terms of the difference between picky eating and ARFID, they're vastly different. So some people with a narrow range of foods, they will likely grow out of that as they get older, and may be able to introduce more variety. With ARFID, it's not something that you just grow out of when you get older. Also, ARFID can lead to malnutrition, to nutritional deficiencies, to weight loss, or reliance on a very narrow set of foods, whereas picky eating doesn't necessarily affect health. Sometimes it doesn't, I mean ARFID sometimes doesn't as well, but it's less likely to impact health to the degree that ARFID can. In some people with ARFID, also, avoidance is often linked to sensory differences, so sensory processing differences, or fears of choking or vomiting, or past trauma events that have happened, or negative experiences with food. Picky eating tends to be more about preference though, or maybe habit, or maybe it's more to do with what food is available and accessible, and what someone's grown up with is more likely to be what they eat. Also, normally someone that's got ARFID will have a lot of anxiety around food and eating, and there'll be a lot of distress for both the child, sometimes the family as well, and there's also a lot of social challenges. Whereas with more picky eating, sometimes that can be really frustrating, but it rarely causes that sort of level of impact essentially.

Margo: So in short, picky eating is common, it's usually temporary, and there's not much support or intervention needed necessarily, whereas ARFID, an eating disorder and neurodivergence, that really requires nuanced support and a team. I hope that makes sense.

Laetitia: It makes total sense, and I totally agree with you that we need to really clarify everything, and that's why I wanted to ask the question, because in our own lived experience, and in our own journey with our own family, for a long time people would say those words, picky eating, or things, and I'm like, no, this is not what it is. And when we discovered the word ARFID, and the world of ARFID, and an approach that was more affirming, it was really freeing, and really kind of a relief, which links me to the next question. You've done lots of content around fed is best, and I told you that it was a massive weight on our shoulders, which just dropped, when I discovered that sentence. But also, knowing and reassuring myself, despite the neuronative approach, despite being raised in a beautiful family where food was really important, because I've been raised in France, having this kind of approach which is, fed is best, it's better to eat this than go to bed with an empty belly. It's better to do this than not doing anything, or things like that. So how do we define this concept of fed is best? Not everyone may have seen your content, not everyone may have learned from you, worked with you, so I just want this to be accessible for anyone listening.

Margo: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you described it well. But essentially, in a nutshell, fed is best basically means eating something, eating anything, is better than eating nothing. And when we're supporting someone with ARFID, or feeding differences, or eating disorders, any food that person eats will provide nutrition and nourishment for their body, and will help with meeting caloric needs, no matter what it is. So that's basically it, anything is better than nothing.

Margo: And I just wanted to add too, back to that picky eating question, that really what we should be saying, or what I prefer to say rather, is sensory feeding differences. If someone doesn't have ARFID, but they do still have difficulties around sensory things with food, then sensory feeding differences is the appropriate term. And it's a much nicer way of saying someone struggles with food variety than calling them picky or fussy. However, if that's what you want to call yourself, that's absolutely okay.

Laetitia: Yeah, it's more like how you call your children, which then gets that in them, the negative message.

Margo: Exactly. This impact that it has, like being called a fussy eater for a big part of my childhood, was kind of how then you embed that, where actually just acknowledging the differences is often better. And something that I love around fed is best, and around this approach which is more affirming and so on, is it's also allowing everyone to eat what feels safe for them.

Laetitia: And so I remember a few weeks ago you shared about cultural food that feels safe, and for me, really, eating French food is something that makes me feel safe. So if you come from another cultural background, maybe your safe food is not just butter on toast or pasta with nothing. Maybe it's a dish that actually has a lot of flavour and spices and things, because this is how you've been raised. And so I just love that approach, because also there is this misunderstanding that I find, and again you can share your own expertise, because for me it's more coming from lived experience, where people are like, oh, but actually you're eating things that can be quite sophisticated, but it's because these are the things that I grew up with. A ratatouille for me feels very safe because my grandma was making it, my dad was making it, and yes, the ratatouille has a lot of colours and a lot of flavours, but this is such a safe food for me.

Margo: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. A lot of my clients, they'll eat wide varieties of different foods, in the sense of, yeah, some of them love spicy food, some of them love colourful food, some of them love food with really strong flavours. So, not everyone with ARFID only eats beige foods. I think that is a massive misconception, and culture does play a huge part of it. And it makes sense that the foods you grow up with, where you were at home, you were feeling loved, you were feeling safe, they're now the foods that you like to eat when you're now an adult, because it brings back those feelings and those memories. So it definitely is different for everyone. And I'm glad you brought that up, because it is a huge misconception. Yeah.

Laetitia: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for all the education you do around this. So for any parents who have this pressure around balanced meals, and I know I was one of those, because you read all of those books, and we do blood tests and so on, and we see always deficiency in iron and deficiency in this and deficiency in that, so you're like, oh my gosh, it's because I'm not giving them everything that they need. But at the same time, they may not eat that thing, so you don't want to put the pressure on them. So how do we simplify, and make sure our child, and ourselves, if you're listening to this and you identify as ARFID, are feeling nourished and safe, while eating what we need for our body?

Margo: Yeah. I think it's so hard for parents, like from the moment a child is born, the questions thrown around, like, are they getting enough food, whether it be from formula or breastfed. And if they're not getting enough, the word failure to thrive is thrown around. So there's constant pressure on parents from the moment a child is born to feed them, and feed them well, quote unquote, whatever that means. That's different for everyone.

Margo: But I think most importantly, letting go of some of those neuronormative expectations and pressures that society might place on us, or maybe they're things that have come up from our own upbringing, from our own parents. There's a lot of feelings around shoulds, and I say shoulds with quotation marks, where we should be feeding our child a certain way. Should doesn't really exist. Every single child is different, and so has different needs.

Margo: And instead, thinking about, if you can go away and think about, am I doing this because it's creating peace in my family, it's what's right for us, it's meaning my child is fed, they're regulated, that's great. But if you're finding that there's a lot of meal time arguments, or dysregulation or distress, and you're trying to push something because that's what your parents did when you were growing up, or that's what society tells you you should do, it's really good to question these things, and to go, well, maybe this isn't the right thing for my family or for me right now, and maybe I need to figure out what would be best. It's like, what can I do to make sure that my child is feeling safe, regulated, and nourished, and myself as well, because your needs matter too as a parent.

Margo: So some of the other ways that you might do this would be prioritising safe foods. So if your child has particular foods that really help with regulation and safety, making sure that they have access to these foods, and also reducing pressure around food and eating. If your child says they don't want to eat a certain thing, or they've had enough, really trusting them to know what their body needs, and not forcing more of that food. And again, coming back to reminding yourself that fed is best, if your child is eating, and eating regularly, and eating enough, then they're doing okay. If there are any nutrition gaps, we can support these with supplements if needed, and it's absolutely okay to use supplements if they're needed.

Margo: Another thing is just to keep meal times predictable and pressure free, so the child feels like they can eat in their own way. Some kids will find it really helpful having set meal times. Other kids, they might need things to be more flexible. So really just tuning into what works well for my child as an individual. And I would also question, what is a balanced meal? Because this might actually look different for every family, or for every child. So just questioning, a balanced meal doesn't have to look one way. It doesn't have to be meat and three veg, which I would call a very neurotypical meal, and it's totally fine if you like that. But a balanced meal might look like a plate of snacks, or a snack plate, or it might look like, I don't know, a plate of sausages for that child. It could be anything. So we don't have to be so rigid around what meals look like essentially.

Laetitia: I love that. So much wisdom in everything you shared, and so much value, and I know we've been on that journey ourselves, and it's been really a beautiful way to acknowledge. So for our own family, eating with hands is a preference of one of our children, and so it's something that, of course, being raised in a family where it's like, use your fork and knife, talking about other cultures where it's okay to eat with your hands. And so in our family, during meal time, it's okay to eat with your hands if that feels better, and eating on a bouncing ball, which helps finding that regulation, and limiting the pressure of, you need to sit at the table, and you need to sit in a certain way, and all of that. So all of this has been really making dinner time and lunchtime, during the weekend or during school camp, way nicer than it was before. So all of this is, do you want to add something to that?

Margo: Oh no, I just a hundred percent agree with you. If sitting at the table isn't working, then don't, yeah, don't do it, you don't have to do it. And a lot of my clients don't like eating with cutlery, and sometimes that can be due to dyspraxia as well, and difficulties holding cutlery. But sometimes it's also just a preference, where they're maybe a sensory seeker and they love to feel the food as well. So there's no right or wrong to eating, it's just figuring out what works best for you and your family.

Laetitia: Yes, I love that. So I just want you to share with us one thing that parents could do, like one small doable change that a parent could do this week that can reduce the stress around meal time. And you've given already some advice, but what are a few things that you've found really work with many families that you've supported?

Margo: I think one of the key things is really removing any commentary around what or how much your child is eating. So trying not to be like, oh, you haven't eaten enough, or you need to eat more, or what you're eating isn't good or healthy, quote unquote. It's really important to remove any kind of moral value around food as well, and keep food neutral, so just trying not to label foods good or bad. All food will provide nourishment, as I've already said. So yeah, removing commentary around food, how much your child's eating, what they're eating, and refraining from labelling it in any way other than neutral, I would say.

Laetitia: I love that. I really love it. And I witness myself sometimes making those comments. It's so interesting when you witness how ingrained your kind of pattern and upbringing, and your own, is. And so, how many times do I say those things, being like, oh, and I'm like, why do I say that? So, yeah, really listening to this again and again, and reminding myself that fed is best, and they know better what they need.

Margo: And of course, no one's perfect. We're going to make mistakes. We're going to say things sometimes that we would ideally shouldn't say, but we just do the best that we can, and that repair is what's important. So if you say something and you catch yourself saying it, and you realise, oh, I shouldn't have said that, repair. Go back to the child, say, I shouldn't have said that, I'm sorry. That's what's important. None of us are perfect, we all make mistakes, it's okay.

Laetitia: Yes. And this process of repairing in front of the child, and with the child, and all of that, is such a beautiful way. Like I've seen so many times, if I am dysregulated and I lose it, or something is happening with my partner, rather than hiding the conversation, then come back and we say, we're sorry for this, or we're sorry for that. The repairing publicly is actually something that is really, really powerful and really affirming in our own family. But yeah.

Margo: Yeah. No, I would agree. And I think it teaches your children that you're human, you know, you're not perfect, and that's okay, no one is.

Laetitia: No one is. And I'm far from it. I am far from it. And that's something that I absolutely love in the eyes of my children. Sometimes they say, mum, you're so amazing, I'm like, I'm doing the best I can. Like, but you're doing so good, and I'm like, oh, thank you. Because I have definitely moments, many moments in a week, where I'm like, okay, I'm going to go through a phase of repair, I haven't done a good job. And same with my own relationship with food, it's been beautiful to witness my own healing, my relationship with my children as well, and around food.

Laetitia: So, but that's beautiful within the family dynamic. But our kids may go to school, or they may go to community events, birthday parties, or the grandparents' house, or the auntie's house, or things like that. So how do we make sure that they're all brought in the loop, and that the child isn't pressured or shamed outside of the house? It's one of the reasons why we developed Understanding Zoe for us. But for anyone who is not maybe using Understanding Zoe, or using tech to enable that, how can they help other people surrounding the child understand about ARFID, and about the differences, and how to be supportive?

Margo: Yeah. So I guess, from a practitioner perspective, that is something that I do for my clients, is advocate for them with schools, or other family members. If needed, I'll write letters, or we'll have actual care team meetings. But as a parent, you kind of need to be your child's advocate, which is really hard, and you do have to have some really uncomfortable and difficult conversations, which, yeah, is really, really tricky. But your child is your priority, and really does need you to advocate for them. So if you have the capacity, that's what's going to help the most. If you're struggling with capacity, you can also share resources, handouts, short guides, with the school, or with grandparents, and ask them to kindly educate themselves.

Margo: But I think it is really important to try and create consistency in the different spaces that your child participates within, so that everyone's kind of on the same page. And, in saying that, you can't control everything, because things can be said and can happen, and things can be out of your control. But at least if you are trying to do a bit of the advocating and educating of other people, essentially school, grandparents, friends, et cetera, then some of the messages are going to get across. But ultimately, just reminding your child that not everyone is going to get it, that some people, when they don't understand things, they do struggle to really empathise and make accommodations. But your child, their way of eating is okay, it's normal, it's nothing to feel embarrassed or ashamed of. And that not everyone is going to get it, and that's not a reflection of them, of the child, it's a reflection of that person.

Laetitia: Yeah.

Margo: You know, yeah.

Laetitia: Advocating is really hard. Yeah.

Margo: Takes a lot of spoons.

Laetitia: Takes a lot of spoons.

Margo: And I was going to say too, like about what you mentioned before, I think as parents, we're also our toughest critics. Like you were saying, how your child, it's like, you're amazing, you're amazing, my kids do the same thing, and we're just our toughest critics. But imagine if we saw ourselves through the eyes our children see us, how different our own relationships with ourselves would be. I think it's really beautiful how much they adore us.

Laetitia: Yeah.

Margo: You know.

Laetitia: Yeah. And they forgive us when we do this repair in public and so on. So that's really beautiful what you said.

Laetitia: And that brought me to a topic around advocacy that I will mention, like a vivid experience. The first time one of my daughters went to camp, we were very nervous. So she didn't go the first two years, and she went a few months ago for the first camp with her school. And she had been in a few camps with other Autistic children, like specific camps, which she absolutely adored, and she was able to go with her school. But we had to really educate the teacher around what is a safe way for her around lunchtime, dinner time. It was kind of a canteen where every child would go. So we asked for the accommodation for her to go before with two or three friends, so that it was not too loud, and the permission to eat with her hands. So it definitely takes spoons to do that, but she had the best camp experience, and she came back feeling ready to go again. So she's going again this year, like next year, so in 2026. But those are the things where I just want to encourage anyone to communicate, because actually, we often think that the other person will not receive the information, where actually they're really willing to support your child in the way they can. So, trying not to have any preconceptions, thinking, oh, they're not going to accommodate this, or I'm asking for too much, or this and that. Like for us, it's been really helpful, and I know that Zoe, in that case, had the best experience, and she's going to go back, which for me is a delight.

Laetitia: Okay, so to close this podcast, I just want to give you the opportunity to share, what is one word of encouragement you'd like to give a parent who right now is listening to all of this, and is maybe feeling scared of being judged by others, by sharing about their own, or their child. What is a word of encouragement you would like to share with them?

Margo: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think in terms of feeling judged by others, people are always going to judge what they don't understand. But just know that you're absolutely doing the best thing for your child, and that's all that matters. So, listening to their needs and meeting their needs, that's the most important thing. And I think it's very normal for us to feel scared or worried about our children's nutrition, whether they're being nourished enough. But it's also important to know that your child's worth is not defined by how much they eat, or what they eat, or what their body size is, or how they look, and neither is your success as a parent. So, eating can change as capacity changes, which means that some days kids will eat more or less. And if you are really worried about your child's nutrition, I would just recommend seeking support. And then often, I'll have parents come to me that are really worried, and we'll talk about things, and they're shocked to find out that their child is actually eating enough, and their child's actually doing okay. So it's not always bad news. Yeah, I think just seeking support where you need it as well is really important.

Laetitia: Definitely. And that's a perfect segue to my last question, which is, if any of our listeners would like to learn more about your work at Whole Body Nutrition, would love to work with you, work with your team, learn more about ARFID and every other beautiful thing that you support people with, where should they start their journey?

Margo: Sure. Well, we have lots of free resources on social media, so it's margo underscore wholebodynutrition, and also on our website as well, we've got lots of blogs. So if you want to learn more, you can head to either of those places. We're also on Facebook, I can't think off the top of my head what my Facebook is, but it's probably Whole Body Nutrition. I should know, but I don't use it as much, I just kind of let it automatically post. And then we also have a couple of ebooks on our website as well, which are all about neuroaffirming feeding, and eating, and fed is best. So yeah, lots to go and have a little look at.

Laetitia: Thank you. Thank you so much, Margo, for your time to share all of this with our listeners, and for all of your support that you give our community. Very grateful for you.

Margo: Thank you. I'm grateful for you too. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast, and for all the work that you do too. Such a pleasure to be here.

Laetitia: Quick Pulse check with Zoe about fed is best. Zoe, what is one food that always feels easy to eat?

Zoe: Pizza.

Laetitia: Yes. And you are a bit Italian, so that makes sense. And Zoe, what is one food that feels impossible to eat?

Zoe: Zucchini.

Laetitia: Thank you, Zoe, for joining us for this Quick Pulse check. That's a wrap for The Neurodivergent Pulse. If this helped, follow the show and leave us a quick review on your favourite platform. You can even share this episode with someone who needs it. You can learn more about our platform at Understanding Zoe, the