Raising Neurodivergent kiddos, embracing the chaos with Tracey Jewel

Laetitia: Welcome to The Neurodivergent Pulse, where we explore the often misunderstood world of neurodivergence with experts, parents, teachers, and therapists. Grounded in lived experience, each bite-sized episode gives you something practical to try. I am your host, Laetitia Andrac, AI expert, neurodivergent mum, and founder of Understanding Zoe. This podcast is recorded on Dharawal country. I acknowledge that sovereignty was never ceded. It always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

Laetitia: Hello, Tracey. Welcome to The Neurodivergent Pulse podcast.

Tracey: Hello. Thank you so much for having me. I'm just so excited to be here. I've been waiting all week. Highlight of the week, for sure.

Laetitia: Oh my goodness, that is so, uh, beautiful to hear. And we met online together, and I've been following your journey and your work, but I would love for any of the listeners who are not familiar with you yet to hear a bit about your own journey. How did you end up doing the work that you're doing today, and really sharing your behind the scenes?

Tracey: It's so funny how sometimes you have these, you know, life circle moments, and I have worked in one way or another in disabilities, you know, NDIS, aged care, you know, neurodivergent land as a job. And then when my son was diagnosed, when he was three, like, became real, without swearing too much. You know, it's very different when you work in a sector, and then it lands, and you're suddenly a mum navigating the paperwork and the therapies and government and schooling and education and support work, and everything. And that was a life circle moment. Um, it led to me being late diagnosed neurodivergent. So, um, a lot of beautiful lessons and beautiful things have come out of it, but my goodness, it's been a journey.

Laetitia: Yeah, I hear you with that journey. And so, you are someone who talks a lot about the chaos, and when we raise neurodivergent kiddos, when we raise, um, children, we know that it doesn't follow the book, like the rule book. And I remember when I was having Zoe as a little baby and infant, I would be reading those books for neurotypical children, and being like, where is my baby book? Like, my baby doesn't fit the book. She doesn't sleep in this way. She doesn't do the napping, she doesn't do, you know, she was going through her own journey like any of our kiddos. And so, what kind of chaos do families who are raising their divergent kiddos encounter? And why do you think that word chaos is actually something really powerful? Because you use it a lot, and I love that about you.

Tracey: I do use it a lot. Embrace the chaos. I have a t-shirt from Teeu, uh, with it on. But, oh my goodness, wouldn't it be great, cuz, you know, usually someone gifts you, when you have a baby, the What to Expect When You're Expecting book, when you're pregnant, like, someone hands that down. Where is the What to Expect When You Have a Neurodivergent Child book? I'm still waiting for that book, right? Like, there's a lot of great resources out there, but that book would just be, you know, the icing on the cake. Um, I do love embracing the chaos, because I did do a lot of therapy work around radical acceptance, when life doesn't turn out the way you'd planned or hoped. And I feel like that is so true when you do get that diagnosis, or you're trying to navigate life with a neurodivergent child, because you can't do the everyday things that we take for granted, right? Like, going to the shops is suddenly something that takes, you know, half a day just to get there for five minutes sometimes, or you stay in the car. So, I feel like embracing those moments that can really be chaotic and really messy, and really, hard radical acceptance, and trying to find some micro moment of appreciation. Um, you don't have to like it, but just being able to accept it, that mindfulness piece, to just embrace, it is what it is. So, then you can find some joy in it, or laugh about it, or find the humour in it, rather than, you know, it becoming overwhelming, which chaos can become really overwhelming, and, you know, lead to, you know, being upset or angry or frustrated. I think in our household we try and turn it, so then it becomes something that's positive.

Laetitia: Yes. And that's what we found through our research. It's like those moments that are, you know, neuronormative norms, like acceptance of, okay, going and getting to the beach, or going and getting to the shops, or going and getting to a birthday party, are really not something that comes easily to everyone. So, how can we make the journey a moment of connection and a moment of radical acceptance? I love that.

Tracey: Yeah. And you know, it's, I think, like, sometimes you get in this loop of waiting and hoping for things to be better, right? Like, waiting and hoping for the chaos to die down. And when you live this life, because it is such a spectrum, and it does change every day, I think that becomes almost a false hope, right? And you're setting yourself up, like, always waiting for that day to suddenly be happy. Um, so I think you need to, kind of, for us, we flipped the script. Um, and just found it in the day to day instead.

Laetitia: I love that, and it's so true, like, there is this, again, approach of, "Oh, they'll grow out of it," or, "They'll be different." And, like, no, they are who they are. They are Autistic, or they are ADHD, or they are, you know, bipolar, or they are dyslexic, or, you know, whatever it is, it's under the neurodivergent spectrum umbrella. It's like, they are who they are. So, yeah, stop telling us that they'll grow out of it. Help us find joy in those moments of difficulty, or help us find the support and the understanding that we need, because, again, you know, ninety two percent of parents say they feel invisible and misunderstood, and that's really how we feel. So, really, this understanding, and I think, like, a question that's really, um, coming up for me, is when you're talking about this book, What to Expect When You're Expecting, which, of course, is a Bible in Australia. So, I got, some of my Australian friends, gifting it to me. And then, you're like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not doing it right. I am not really trying as a mum," because, my, there was another one about, um, routine and sleep training, whatever it was called, and I never managed to kind of make it work for us. So, I had to throw that book after a few weeks trying, and just getting so frustrated. So, we have this pressure that we put on parents to get it right, to do it in this way, the perfect routine, the perfect sleep, and then they make you, you know, feel bad, because your child is not sleeping well, and you're like, you know, this is who they are. So, yeah. And the meltdown, and the perfect outcome, and so on. So, how, how can you help, based on your lived experience but also having supported so many families, let go, and turning this, as you said, flipping the script, like, what can we do to just stop putting this pressure on ourselves, and the pressure of society and the norms that are put on us, what can we do to let that go?

Tracey: I know, it's so true. And, you know, advice comes in many forms, whatever parent, right, like, when you become a parent, it's just part of, whether that's people recommending books, as you said, sleep's a huge one, eating is another big one, schooling is another, like, there's so many, I feel like, minefields, right, where you're walking on eggshells, where people are giving advice and it's not working. But, you know what I found, because a lot of us mums spend a lot of time with therapy, it's actually the same with therapy too. You try all these things that your therapists tell you to do, whether that's speech, or OT, or psych, or a dietitian, and it doesn't work for your child, and you're like, even the stuff for a neurodivergent child doesn't work. Like, what is going on? Right.

Laetitia: Yeah.

Tracey: And I feel like whenever there's chaos, and you're trying to navigate your way through, and things aren't working, at least we're still out there trying.

Laetitia: Yes.

Tracey: Right. Like, there's still energy. And I think when there's energy and we're trying, and we're doing different things, it means that something can still shift and change. I think when you give up completely and just stop trying and just accept the status quo, I think that can be a lot more debilitating than at least trying something that doesn't work. That's just my personal opinion, and sharing with my mum friends of neurodivergent kids. But at least something's alive, and you're trying to shift and still try and find what works for you, right? And you can kind of at least feel happy that maybe one thing worked and three things didn't. So, let's build on that. But if you don't try, you don't know. But you have to give up the desire that everything's going to work for you, or that it's going to be perfect, or that it's going to work every time, right? Like, it might have worked last week, and this week it's an absolute hard no. Um, so, I feel like you really just need to give up the perfection, or trying to search for the perfection of everything's going to work like a cure, and just kind of hold on to the micro moments that do work, and just build on that, like building blocks, for sure.

Laetitia: Yes, those micro moments, it's so powerful, because we tend to not pause enough and celebrate or savour or connect during those micro moments. And that is such a beautiful reminder, because we are in such a high pressure environment, and even more, according to the research as well, and even more, you know, based on my own lived experience, when we raise neurodivergent children, because we have this kind of societal pressure of, you know, having them follow a neuronormative path, when it's not going to happen. So, let's throw this out, and let's rebuild norms that are actually inclusive of our kiddos, rather than making them fit in those norms, whether, you know, around the education system, but also the food and the nutrition, as you mentioned, and the social play, and all of that. So, I absolutely love that. So, what are some of the surprising strengths that you found through those moments of connection, when those parents stop resisting the chaos and start really working with it, as you described, reframing it, and working with it, and pausing at those micro moments, and letting go of all the control, and just being there and stopping chasing perfection? What are those beautiful surprising strengths that you found in your experience?

Tracey: Well, look, I will start by saying, as we go along this different path, there is a lot of grief that comes up along the way. There's a lot of beautiful moments, but different levels of grief stay with you. I'll give you an example. My son is in hypo mode. So, very withdrawn right now. Doesn't want to leave his room. Doesn't want to engage with toys. Just is really needing to shut out. Everything's too bright, too noisy. Even probably me speaking on this podcast, if he can hear me, he's in his room with his dad, is probably too noisy for him, right? So, there's some grief in that, because I want to engage and play, you know, and do things with him. The sun's out. So, I have to go through my own process of that, but also get past that and connect where he is. So, I'll sit with my tablet, or my phone, or a book next to him, not touching, of course, and let him do him, but I'm there. And every now and again, he'll look at me, and he really loves his colours. You know, they go through special interests. So, he's into colour balls, and he follows balls on his screen like a maze. Loves mazes. And just one little moment, where he won't say anything for hours, he'll turn to me and he'll go, "Those balls handsome, Mum." Like, he says they're beautiful, but he says they're handsome. "Those balls handsome," and he's got the most wicked sense of humour. And I, that will just light me up, right? And I know that sounds so silly, because it's such a small thing, but when he's in such a withdrawn moment, you have to hang on to those things. So, I hope that's an example of, yes, I feel all the grief that it doesn't look a certain way, but oh my goodness, when those little connection things happen, and he comes out with, like, the cutest things, I'm just, my heart just lights up, right?

Laetitia: Oh, yes. Yes. And it's just allowing the space for this to be noticed, you know, allowing, as you said, like, you're sitting there and you can notice that. So, it's a beautiful reminder of this, and this is where, you know, some parents may be really in the thick of it right now, and, you know, we know, again, through the research, how exhausted they are and overwhelmed compared to parents raising neurotypical children. We're not saying that they don't have their own exhaustion and overwhelm. It's just, now it's proven by data, in a large sample, that actually it's even more. So, what is this one tiny thing that they could try this week to start noticing those micro moments of connection, or to start embracing this chaos, or, like, what could be a little exercise, or a little thing, or, you know, maybe you have, um, something you say yourself, or something you touch, or something you smell, like, how can you help us, because it sounds like you're so able to dive into those micro moments, and I really want to dive into those moments more for myself, in the connection with my own daughters. So, how do you do that?

Tracey: Well, it's so interesting. I'll just share a quick little story. So, I run peer support groups for mums and female caregivers called Inclusive Mama's Club, right, of neurodivergent kids. And we catch up once a month over a coffee and sharing. And it hit me one day that we're all sharing all these things, sensory things we buy for our kids. We buy the weighted blankets. We buy the fidget toys. We buy, look at this, it's right next to me, we buy the chew. You know, like, the house is just like, every room is taken over by all these tools to help our children. And, of course, this is what we do, right? Where's our tools? Where did our tools go? And I was starting to think, when have we had a moment of writing down and purchasing a couple of things that we love? Now, I love fluffy, like, sensory stuff, like fluffy cushions and textured blankets. And I love, like, my quirky coffee mugs with all my inspirational sayings on them. I love my crystals and my oracle cards. Where are they? They're all tucked away in a cupboard, not being used. So, as soon as I finished that group, I got them all out of the cupboard, because if you have them around you, you're more likely to use them, right? And even looking at them brings you happiness. So, I feel like we need to spend a little bit more time, because going to a day spa is out of the question at this point in my life. So, let's bring some of those tools home, and have them around us where we can actually access them, because if we have a bit of a full cup, we all know, and the research shows, of course, that then we can co-regulate our kids, and we can actually be in an open mind to find those connection points. Yes. So, I'm like, let's write our own lists, you know, for 2026, about all the things that fill us up, not just the sensory toys for our kids.

Laetitia: I love it. Such a good one. And I have this, um, I have my office space, which is like my own sacred space, and I know I'm very fortunate to have that space, but it's filled with crystals and oracle cards. It's funny, I didn't know that about you. I actually have my own oracle deck, because I wrote a book, and I created an oracle deck after that. And so, I have this kind of, um, they call it the witch cave. When I say we, it's like Zoe, Lou, and my husband. It's like mummy's witch cave. So, I work out of the witch cave. And this is really giving me joy. And, indeed, as you said, when our capacity, our window of tolerance, is expanding through those moments of joy, we are more likely to be able to co-regulate and be present and give our kiddos something. I love that. It's so good. And you know what? I'm going to write my list, because I am sure there are all the things that I truly love that I haven't gifted myself in a while, because, as you said, you know, the mellow mats and this and that, and all of those things, to make sure they're safe and they feel supported, and, you know, all of that, but, one other thing for us, and we need those things.

Tracey: Yeah. What's on my list is, you know, those old foot spas from, like, the 2000s, with the massage and the hot water and the bubbles. Yeah, that's next on my list. I'm getting one of those. Yeah.

Laetitia: So good. It's true. It was very trendy a while ago, but it's not something that

Tracey: I'm going to bring it back. I'm going to bring it back.

Laetitia: I'm sure I can find one, secondhand marketplace. It's potentially something that

Tracey: Yeah, I have a thing about feet, but, like, someone else's feet being in it, maybe might leave that one, but I'm sure I'll find something on Amazon somewhere, right?

Laetitia: Oh, for sure. I love that. So, um, I just want to go to, so, we always have this, uh, quickfire question. What is one messy, joyful ritual, little moment of shared silliness, that helps you reconnect with your child, that helps you have those, you know, trigger those micro moments? What is your go to?

Tracey: Yeah. So, when my son has a meltdown, I'm sure a lot of mums will relate to this, he has, like, OCD tendencies, and this is the regular occurrence of his meltdown. So, he'll repeat the same thing, like, "Don't look at me, don't look at me." And he'll get on a loop. So, I'm like, well, talking to him in this moment, or trying to pick him up, is a no go. So, we've created a bit of a game. So, I put on, and I'm too embarrassed to do it here, but I'm sure you can see it on my Instagram, because I get really embarrassed, like, I put on, like, a goofy or a Mickey Mouse voice, and repeat it back to him but get it wrong. So, then he has to, you know, say it back to me, but say, "No, mum, I'm saying this." And I'm like, um, and then he starts laughing, and then we start laughing. So, we have this really beautiful connection. And I think sometimes tapping into your own inner child and playing with things can really help connect those moments that become really hard. And sometimes it doesn't work, I got to preface that as well. Sometimes it has a total opposite reaction, but, you know, I find it funny. So, you know, it's a half win.

Laetitia: I love it, and it's so true that, through raising neurodivergent children as ourselves neurodivergent, which is, you know, according to the research, sixty three percent of the parents raising neurodivergent children identify also as neurodivergent themselves. So, we tend to go through this journey of reopening our wounding and reconnecting with those special interests and things that give us joy, and so on. So, there is the two parts in there, which is, first, revisiting our wounding, maybe also being bullied, or, you know, having people trying to fix us, or having people who want us to do things a certain way, or, "Look in the eyes," which was my story, you know, "Look at me in the eyes, you're so rude," you know, all of those kind of things. It's like, we reopen our wounding, and we have those moments where I can reconnect with my special interest. Zoe has a special interest for Greek mythology, and I had a special interest in Greek mythology, and I never tried to pass that down to her, but I studied Greek, I went to Greece, I knew all of the gods and goddesses. I had such a deep interest in that, and she has the same, and so, we have this connection and moments of fun and shared interest, which is really powerful. So, I love that, like, reconnecting with our inner child.

Tracey: Of course. And also, you know, the things I didn't get to do as a child, I can do now. So, you know, we had really, I guess, strong gender roles growing up, as you did in the eighties sometimes. I was, like, dolls, and my brother was Lego, and now, having a beautiful boy, I love playing with Lego, you know, like, and building things, things that I missed out on as a kid. So, I really find, like, when you have the special interest, or you have something that you didn't get to do that you wanted to do, now is your chance. And also, like, I love aquariums. So, when we can, we love going to the aquarium as well. Um, and, you know, it's, yeah, you get, I feel like you either get to relive some childhood moments, or do the things you wish you could do. Um, so, yeah, I think there's a lot of beauty in that, for sure.

Laetitia: I love it. And for me, like, for you it's the Lego, for me it was having a dog. I was obsessed with dogs, and I would ask my parents every single day to have a dog, and I would have my room filled with dog posters, and so on. Never got a dog. But, when Zoe was, um, assessed Autistic, the psychologist was like, a dog can help, and that's the moment where I got the dog, and we have this, um, yes, okay, said, "Our dog is helping everyone in the family, but it's my dog." Like, I am just so happy to have him, and he's such a good therapy dog. He's the best, but it's really like,

Tracey: Yeah, it's a dog I never had during my childhood. So, I love that.

Laetitia: Oh my gosh, we could chat for hours, but let's wrap up here, because, um, I just want to make sure we hit the mark of our commitment, which is twenty to thirty minutes an episode, to make sure everyone can listen to it while they're driving around, and, uh, or maybe having a moment to themselves. So, how can people connect more with you, explore more of your content, or potentially join your beautiful group supporting mothers of neurodivergent children? Share a bit about that.

Tracey: I think so. Yeah, you can message me anytime on Insta. It's Tracey Jewel, Tracey Jewel. So, I love a good chat. You know, I'm at home a lot these days. So, you know, I love my online friends. Um, and we run, uh, online support tools and peer support groups online and in person at Inclusive Mama's Club. Um, so, you can find us there as well.

Laetitia: I love it. Thank you so much, Tracey, for taking the time today to share your journey, and also how to embrace the chaos. Thank you.

Tracey: Oh, thanks for having me. Anytime. I love these chats. Take care.

Laetitia: Awesome. Welcome to a new pulse from Zoe on The Neurodivergent Pulse podcast. So, Zoe, what does chaos mean for you?

Zoe: Uh, chaos means, like, when children or adults scream and run around and ask their parents for everything.

Laetitia: And what do you do when chaos is happening around you?

Zoe: I either take my headphones or go into a calm area.

Laetitia: What is your favourite calm area to go to?

Zoe: Um, underneath the stairs. Underneath our stairs.

Laetitia: What is that, for our listeners? Because they don't know what it is. What is there under our stairs?

Zoe: We have a tiny secret hideout, which, uh, I go to when I'm angry or when I'm dysregulated.

Laetitia: Yeah. And what do you do in this secret hideout?

Zoe: I have a bunch of games, and I've got pillows to lie down in.

Laetitia: Yes. You made it your own. You reclaimed that space to be your space. I love it. Thank you, Zoe, for sharing on The Neurodivergent Pulse how chaos makes you feel and what you do to support yourself. I think we could all learn from Zoe's wisdom. Thank you everyone for listening. That's a wrap for The Neurodivergent Pulse. If this helped, follow the show and leave us a quick review on your favourite platform. You can even share this episode with someone who needs it. You can learn more about our platform at understandingzoe.com. Thanks for listening.